that was obvious but the entire economy could be brought down by it. that's not a thought that was in my head. >> charlie: without having you comment i'm going to read your rehab programs for policy makers. don't try to do too many things at once. explain yourself to the people. say it in language that ordinary people can understand. number 4, repeat steps 2 and 3. explain yourself. step 5 set expectations low. step 6. pay attention to people's at feuds, prejudices and misconceptions and step 7 way rapt attention to fairness. if people think they're being screwed as they did during the financial crisis and with good reason, you almost certainly lose them. >> you do. there's a difference between paying attention and paying rapt attention. we economists pay a lot more attention to efficiency. but most of the people on earth not just in america pay a lot more attention to fairness. >> charlie: do you think more people should have gone to jail because of what happened leading up to 2008? >> i do. i can't name them. going to jail is a high bar. you have to